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	<title>Comments on: Old Media, New Media, Demand Media: All in the Same Boat</title>
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	<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/</link>
	<description>Useful Resources for Some, Useless Rants for Others</description>
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		<title>By: Tekla Szymanski</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5279</link>
		<dc:creator>Tekla Szymanski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5279</guid>
		<description>This is the best analysis that I&#039;ve read about this controversy in a long time. I for one cringe already when I hear the words &quot;content provider&quot;. No, we are professional writers. Not everyone who taps on a keyboard can write. 
Thank you for this article! 
Tekla Szymanski 
&quot;Where Old Media and New Media Meet&quot; 
@tszymanski 
facebook.com/OldMediaNewMedia  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the best analysis that I&#039;ve read about this controversy in a long time. I for one cringe already when I hear the words &quot;content provider&quot;. No, we are professional writers. Not everyone who taps on a keyboard can write.<br />
Thank you for this article!<br />
Tekla Szymanski<br />
&quot;Where Old Media and New Media Meet&quot;<br />
@tszymanski<br />
facebook.com/OldMediaNewMedia</p>
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		<title>By: This week in media musings: The Demand Media invasion, and &#8216;objectivity&#8217; trumps transparency &#124; Mark Coddington</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5232</link>
		<dc:creator>This week in media musings: The Demand Media invasion, and &#8216;objectivity&#8217; trumps transparency &#124; Mark Coddington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5232</guid>
		<description>[...] Media weigh in: Andria Krewson says the work is low-paying but well done, and in a thoughtful post, John Zhu says companies like Demand Media might be the inevitable outgrowth of all media&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Media weigh in: Andria Krewson says the work is low-paying but well done, and in a thoughtful post, John Zhu says companies like Demand Media might be the inevitable outgrowth of all media&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Zhu</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5231</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zhu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5231</guid>
		<description>I agree: &quot;very rare&quot; at the Internet&#039;s scale can still be very large. But I do think it will likely be fewer than now because  
 
1) Many of today&#039;s professional content niches will be dissolving,  
 
2) there will probably be fewer new niches springing up to take their place that are as financially profitable (probably no coincidence that most of the big, recent innovations have been about creating platforms for content rather than creating the content), and  
 
3) in the niches that do survive as financially viable, I don&#039;t know if most of them would be able to support more than a handful of players. I mean, how many WSJs or Economists will the marketplace need/support? And while we might have more people trying to go the Gladwell route and make most of their money off paid speaking gigs, that would only work if there&#039;s a corresponding rise in the number of paid speaking gigs to be had, and I don&#039;t know if there will be or not, since that demand seems finite. 
 
And yes, I have seen Jay Rosen&#039;s list of subsidies. It&#039;s a good list. 
 
Thanks again for the comments. Good discussion. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree: &quot;very rare&quot; at the Internet&#039;s scale can still be very large. But I do think it will likely be fewer than now because  </p>
<p>1) Many of today&#039;s professional content niches will be dissolving,  </p>
<p>2) there will probably be fewer new niches springing up to take their place that are as financially profitable (probably no coincidence that most of the big, recent innovations have been about creating platforms for content rather than creating the content), and  </p>
<p>3) in the niches that do survive as financially viable, I don&#039;t know if most of them would be able to support more than a handful of players. I mean, how many WSJs or Economists will the marketplace need/support? And while we might have more people trying to go the Gladwell route and make most of their money off paid speaking gigs, that would only work if there&#039;s a corresponding rise in the number of paid speaking gigs to be had, and I don&#039;t know if there will be or not, since that demand seems finite. </p>
<p>And yes, I have seen Jay Rosen&#039;s list of subsidies. It&#039;s a good list. </p>
<p>Thanks again for the comments. Good discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Maly</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5230</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Maly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5230</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting idea, and it builds nicely on your point that you&#039;d rather work for free for 2 hours for the love of helping a friend than work for $5. So if the professional rates drop that the dedicated creators just walk away and make content they love on their own time, then Demand Media and the like face a problem which is that for certain types of content amateurs will produce better results that the (much diminished) professionals. 
 
It would be fun to see a Wiki-like response to Demand Media. One that runs similar algorithms that predict questions people will ask and then asks volunteers to produce better quality results. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting idea, and it builds nicely on your point that you&#039;d rather work for free for 2 hours for the love of helping a friend than work for $5. So if the professional rates drop that the dedicated creators just walk away and make content they love on their own time, then Demand Media and the like face a problem which is that for certain types of content amateurs will produce better results that the (much diminished) professionals. </p>
<p>It would be fun to see a Wiki-like response to Demand Media. One that runs similar algorithms that predict questions people will ask and then asks volunteers to produce better quality results.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Maly</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5229</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Maly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5229</guid>
		<description>Have you seen Jay Rosen&#039;s list of &lt;a href=&quot;http:\/\/jayrosen.tumblr.com\/post\/243813457\/sources-of-subsidy-in-the-production-of-news-a-list&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;sources of news subsidy&lt;/a&gt;? There are a lot of options listed there and I think it dovetails nicely with your question about whether third party subsidies of any kind are worthwhile. 
 
The interesting question when you say &quot;a few very rare exceptions in unique niches&quot; is how rare? How unique? Because at the scale of the Internet, very rare is still very large. 
 
I&#039;m reminded of Kevin Kelly&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http:\/\/www.kk.org\/thetechnium\/archives\/2008\/03\/1000_true_fans.php&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;1000 True Fans&lt;/a&gt; argument. We define a true fan as someone willing to pay you one days wage a year for your work. if you have a thousand of them, you end up with 3x their average income as your income. That&#039;s a very livable income for a lot of content creators. 
 
I come from a background of videogames, so we have been in a place where we&#039;ve been competing with free and cross-subsidies since the beginning. And eeking out a living is very hard. But it is doable for some people, and more than one might think. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you seen Jay Rosen&#039;s list of <a href="http:\/\/jayrosen.tumblr.com\/post\/243813457\/sources-of-subsidy-in-the-production-of-news-a-list" target="_blank">sources of news subsidy</a>? There are a lot of options listed there and I think it dovetails nicely with your question about whether third party subsidies of any kind are worthwhile. </p>
<p>The interesting question when you say &quot;a few very rare exceptions in unique niches&quot; is how rare? How unique? Because at the scale of the Internet, very rare is still very large. </p>
<p>I&#039;m reminded of Kevin Kelly&#039;s <a href="http:\/\/www.kk.org\/thetechnium\/archives\/2008\/03\/1000_true_fans.php" target="_blank">1000 True Fans</a> argument. We define a true fan as someone willing to pay you one days wage a year for your work. if you have a thousand of them, you end up with 3x their average income as your income. That&#039;s a very livable income for a lot of content creators. </p>
<p>I come from a background of videogames, so we have been in a place where we&#039;ve been competing with free and cross-subsidies since the beginning. And eeking out a living is very hard. But it is doable for some people, and more than one might think.</p>
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		<title>By: John Zhu</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5228</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zhu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 01:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5228</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, Steve. To clarify, I don&#039;t believe that users will be increasingly satisfied with increasingly unsatisfying content. Here&#039;s how I see it: Since the amount of content available is only going to keep increasing toward pretty much infinity, it means that the amount of good content will also be increasing, and that increase may be enough to keep satisfying users, even if it means the percentage of good content in the overall marketplace is decreasing. It certainly seems to be the pattern thus far. Back when only an elite few had the power to publish, we had significantly less content overall, but the percentage of that content that&#039;s good was higher. Now, even though we have a higher percentage of crap in the marketplace, the fact that we have so much more content than before means we have more good content than before, and so far it seems to be satisfying users for the most part.  
 
Also, another thing to consider is where the percentage of crap content increases. Even if professionally produced content keeps getting worse, would that matter enough to users to elicit some sort of change in behavior if amateur content (which already significantly outnumbers professional content) continues to increase and maybe improve in quality with practice and more former professionals entering the amateur sphere? My piece was focusing on the quality of professional (produced-for-pay) content, not the overall marketplace of content. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, Steve. To clarify, I don&#039;t believe that users will be increasingly satisfied with increasingly unsatisfying content. Here&#039;s how I see it: Since the amount of content available is only going to keep increasing toward pretty much infinity, it means that the amount of good content will also be increasing, and that increase may be enough to keep satisfying users, even if it means the percentage of good content in the overall marketplace is decreasing. It certainly seems to be the pattern thus far. Back when only an elite few had the power to publish, we had significantly less content overall, but the percentage of that content that&#039;s good was higher. Now, even though we have a higher percentage of crap in the marketplace, the fact that we have so much more content than before means we have more good content than before, and so far it seems to be satisfying users for the most part.  </p>
<p>Also, another thing to consider is where the percentage of crap content increases. Even if professionally produced content keeps getting worse, would that matter enough to users to elicit some sort of change in behavior if amateur content (which already significantly outnumbers professional content) continues to increase and maybe improve in quality with practice and more former professionals entering the amateur sphere? My piece was focusing on the quality of professional (produced-for-pay) content, not the overall marketplace of content.</p>
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		<title>By: John Zhu</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5227</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zhu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 01:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5227</guid>
		<description>Thanks Tim, for reading and commenting. Those are all good possibilities. I think No. 1 would fall under the &quot;very few rare exceptions in unique niches&quot; I mentioned, since the likes of WSJ, the Economist, and Gladwell are all more the exception than the norm now among content creators, and probably will become even more so. And No. 2 and No. 3 are examples of what I mean when I talk about the possibility that &quot;society reaches a point where we collectively say we&#8217;ve gone too far, and we either retreat back up the path to an earlier point that tilts the equation back a bit more in quality&#8217;s favor.&quot; They are potential developments that would elevate the importance of quality in the profitability of content creation. No. 4 is kind of interesting, and I&#039;m trying to figure out if that&#039;s a new model or another version of the subsidy model, only with &quot;other goods and services&quot; replacing advertising&#039;s role as the subsidizer.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Tim, for reading and commenting. Those are all good possibilities. I think No. 1 would fall under the &quot;very few rare exceptions in unique niches&quot; I mentioned, since the likes of WSJ, the Economist, and Gladwell are all more the exception than the norm now among content creators, and probably will become even more so. And No. 2 and No. 3 are examples of what I mean when I talk about the possibility that &quot;society reaches a point where we collectively say we&rsquo;ve gone too far, and we either retreat back up the path to an earlier point that tilts the equation back a bit more in quality&rsquo;s favor.&quot; They are potential developments that would elevate the importance of quality in the profitability of content creation. No. 4 is kind of interesting, and I&#039;m trying to figure out if that&#039;s a new model or another version of the subsidy model, only with &quot;other goods and services&quot; replacing advertising&#039;s role as the subsidizer.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Farrell</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5226</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5226</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m reading a bit of a contradiction in Tim&#039;s comment and John&#039;s original piece.  They imply that users will increasingly be satisfied with increasingly unsatisfying content.  The question, in my mind, is whether readers are being served by the systems in place (eg Google search for reviews, or Demand Media real time production of articles).  If users are not satisfied, then there is an inefficiency in the system, and thus an opportunity to do better. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m reading a bit of a contradiction in Tim&#039;s comment and John&#039;s original piece.  They imply that users will increasingly be satisfied with increasingly unsatisfying content.  The question, in my mind, is whether readers are being served by the systems in place (eg Google search for reviews, or Demand Media real time production of articles).  If users are not satisfied, then there is an inefficiency in the system, and thus an opportunity to do better.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Maly</title>
		<link>http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/2009/12/15/old-media-new-media-demand-media-not-all-in-the-same-boat/comment-page-1/#comment-5225</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Maly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-zhu.com/blog/?p=2702#comment-5225</guid>
		<description>I think that there are more possibilities. 
 
One is that the price of commodified information is going to crash, but non commodity information will grow in value. So this is stuff like the WSJ and Economist being able to charge for financial information while other papers can&#039;t have a paywall. Or Gladwell being asked to give major talks and being paid handsomely. 
 
Another is that it will turn out that there is some minimum threshold of quality that we are willing to accept. If it&#039;s true that Google is getting polluted with increasingly low quality results, we should expect a corresponding drop in use around certain topics. Anecdotally, I am already seeing that in my group of friends. We&#039;ve stopped using Google to do much research about buying because the results for WHATEVER + Review are so predictably bad. Google should respond to this drop by changing how they filter search results, or some other player should rise. I, for one, would love to see the ability to blacklist sites that are routinely non-useful for me from my search results. 
 
A third is that the bad cheap information become so clogging that consumer retreat to high reputation providers. Reviews is one place where I don&#039;t use search anymore, I use trusted review sites. 
 
A fourth is that content becomes a kind of loss-leader for other goods and services. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that there are more possibilities. </p>
<p>One is that the price of commodified information is going to crash, but non commodity information will grow in value. So this is stuff like the WSJ and Economist being able to charge for financial information while other papers can&#039;t have a paywall. Or Gladwell being asked to give major talks and being paid handsomely. </p>
<p>Another is that it will turn out that there is some minimum threshold of quality that we are willing to accept. If it&#039;s true that Google is getting polluted with increasingly low quality results, we should expect a corresponding drop in use around certain topics. Anecdotally, I am already seeing that in my group of friends. We&#039;ve stopped using Google to do much research about buying because the results for WHATEVER + Review are so predictably bad. Google should respond to this drop by changing how they filter search results, or some other player should rise. I, for one, would love to see the ability to blacklist sites that are routinely non-useful for me from my search results. </p>
<p>A third is that the bad cheap information become so clogging that consumer retreat to high reputation providers. Reviews is one place where I don&#039;t use search anymore, I use trusted review sites. </p>
<p>A fourth is that content becomes a kind of loss-leader for other goods and services.</p>
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